WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.. according to Aj im causing various Youtubers to fight amongst themselves.. Mainly MOLESTED MAN .. lord archaeus.. and a video poster named BLUE FIRE WITCH..WTF
October 18, 2007
…up their stupid child molesting asses
“Fuck Gavin and Yvonne Frost up their stupid child molesting asses”
Ok, I didn’t quote that perfectly. Blue Flame is so fast in saying it that I have trouble remembering the exact quote long enough to type it. But it is mighty close. So do I have your attention? I thought so. I gotta love this woman for her spirit and biker class. But I have to start the story with why she created this video. It is in response to a man named Shadow Shaman.
Hey, Shadow Shaman, love the hair you sexy beast. You are right, the Frosts wrote some very homophobic material. I think you quoted the mildest of their material.
Deceptions of Wicca
Now I know some people are going to jump me on this, but Shadow Shaman has some truly good points. The thing is, he should remove the word Wicca and insert “Corporate American Book Sellers promotion of Wicca”. This is where we find most of the lies the man refers to. Not in the religion itself, but in the marketing of the religion for profit.
Wicca is a postmodern religion, which is loosely based on some ancient principles. It is not, as many books demand, an ancient religion. I am reminded of a book published by Llewellyn Worldwide called The Truth about Neopaganism. According to the book, Neopagans have been persecuted for 6 thousand years. I think it was six, maybe five. Uh, neo? Even if they had said pagan instead of neopagan, I have to wonder who was persecuting pagans before the birth of Christianity or Islam. Other pagans?
There really is a lot of BS out there about Wicca and I can certainly see how Shadow Shaman could hold the opinion he has. After all, if you change the term as I mentioned, I kind of agree with a lot of what he has said. The thing is, there is another side to Wicca. One that doesn’t appear in print. There are good people who bought into Corporate America’s Teen Witch kits and other trappings. People who came to the religion due to its fad attraction and stayed, evolving the slim offerings of Corporate America into something truly beautiful.
He later released two videos on the subject of Gavin and Yvonne Frost’s Good Witches Bible.
Good Witch’s Bible Part I
Good Witch’s Bible Part II
Note that in the beginning of Part II, he says Wicca but then corrects himself and says the Frost’s version of Wicca. In part II, he reads about the Frosts changing their mind about Wicca not condoning homosexuality. I find the Frosts reasoning hilarious because they claim they said such because they did not understand how homosexuality could raise energy for magickal purposes. Uh, lets pretend only male female coitus could raise energy for just a moment, why would Wicca not “condone” an act of love?
It is also interesting to note that their back peddling on the issue of pedophilia was to stand behind what they said, but add that you shouldn’t do it formally because you might get sued. Wow. Shadow Shaman has a lot to be angry about.
The thing is, he takes his anger out on Wicca rather than on the Frosts. He is quick to point out that the Frosts are part of Wiccan history and there is nothing anyone can do about that. He is right. There is nothing we can do about the Frosts being part of our history. In fact, that is exactly where I would like them to be, in our history. More sweepingly, they are part of neopagan history and there is nothing we can do about that.
As I understand Shadow Shaman’s stance, he is not Wiccan or part of the neo-pagan community. He is a Witch from a tradition that predates the Wicca and neopagan fad. So his videos have been seen by many as attacking Wicca and the neopagan movement in general. Here is the thing, if you are pagan but not neopagan then you have a whole lot more to be ashamed of than the writings of the Frosts. Compared to today’s standards of social, moral, and ethical conduct; some of the actions of the ancient pagans were disguesting.
So why then are the Frosts such an issue? Well, because they are not part of our past. They are part of our here and now. They are defended and promoted by some of today’s leading authors. Did Raven Gramasi say a thing about what they did in his book The Encyclopedia of Wicca and Witchcraft? No. Did Llewellyn Worldwide say a thing in that book? No. Later, Raven Grimasi said that he didn’t write the section on the Frosts, the Frosts wrote it. These are our leaders folk. They claim it is not their fault, someone else must have been on guard that night.
We call them the Old Guard. Well, what the hell are they guarding? Certianly not our reputations. I shouldn’t pick on Raven Grimasi. You see the truth is his actions and conducts are loosely equivalent to just about all of the Old Guard. I shouldn’t pick on Llewellyn Worldwide. Their actions are loosely equivalent to just about all publishers. Business as usual. Don’t make waves. What is the result of that policy? Well, the above referenced videos are the result.
Yes, the Frosts wrote the content of Raven Grimassi’s book which describes the Frosts but does the average person realize that? No. The average person reads that the Frosts are the founders of Wicca and they believe it, after all there it is in a book published by Llewellyn Worldwide, the publisher of books by such folk as Raymond Buckland and Scott Cunningham. So is it really fair to think that folk like Shadow Shaman are the problem in this latest Witch War? They read the books that Neopagan authors and publishers put out and they believe what those books say.
Yes, I did say the latest Witch War. And now I am going to brag. Over at Youtube.com we have Shadow Shaman putting out videos that indicate all Wiccans feel a certain way. He quotes Gavin and Yvonne Frost and references other authors to provide evidence that his view of Wicca and Neopaganism is correct. A woman named Blue Flame Witch blasts back with her own videos.
Blue Flame Witch Part I
Her stance is that Shadow Shaman is judging all Wiccans by the actions of a few. I agree. Shadow Shaman should not conduct himself this way. There are certainly great folk in the Wiccan community and if you condemn us all, well you are missing out on the few who really do shine.
I want to bring to my readers attention Blue Flame’s video because at the end, she demands that not all Wiccans believe the lies being spread by Gavin and Yvonne Frost. She blurts out my name as an example. I am humbled. Seriously, that really blew my mind. To be quoted so firmly as someone who is standing up for another person’s beliefs is a very unusual experience for me. But I have to complain about something. Why am I the only author or other outspoken person who came to her mind? Considering what the Frosts wrote and what they continue to promote, why aren’t more Wiccan authors coming out and screaming from the top of their lungs that THIS IS NOT WICCA! Why is it business as usual?
Blue Flame Witch Part II
“Fuck Gavin and Yvonne Frost”
Again, I adore the spirit, spunk, and biker class of this young lady. But I have to ask a question that I would like both sides of the debate to answer. Not just Blue Flame and Shadow Shaman, but those who agree with Blue Flame or Shadow Shaman. One question.
Is what Gavin and Yvonne Frost wrote wrong?
If either side believes it is wrong, truly wrong, then why aren’t more people saying it is wrong? Seriously guys. I know where Shadow Shaman is coming from. I was raised on material by Herman Slater and Dr. Leo Martello. Authors I am willing to bet Shadow Shaman enjoys reading. I know that folk like Herman Slater and Dr. Leo Martello openly stood against the Frosts book. But what of today’s authors, not just Wiccan authors. Any pagan authors. Any neopagan authors.
Shadow Shaman, where are the books from your religion, from your leaders, telling folk that children are sacred and examples like the Frosts should not be tolerated?
Blue Flame, where are the books from your religion, from your leaders, telling folk that children are sacred and examples like the Frosts should not be tolerated?
We, as a community larger than just one tradition or religion, have somehow lost our fire. It has been washed away by tolerance. These two obviously agree that what the Frosts wrote was just plain wrong. If they could come together and make a cooperative video denouncing the Frosts, wow that would be something.
Ah, and you thought I would end there. Want to see an example of how the Frost supporters work? Well, those of you who have followed his threats here and his rantings on the Frost’s blog will recognize the name Shadowhawk. Well, over at Youtube.com he goes by the name Sylvanus93.
In response to the first video posted by Blue Flame, Shadowhawk (aka Sylvanus 93) replies to Blue Flame by saying:
“Just a quick comment Lord Archaeus has continuously attacked Wiccans yet at this Years Finger Lakes Pagan Pride Day in Rochester New York he was guest speaker on PAGAN UNITY.. now he attacks Gavin and Yvonne Frost.. He event left a comment on my Youtube saying that i smell of burning flesh.. This guy is Delusional “
So a tremendous defender of Gavin and Yvonne Frost posted to Blue Flame’s video, material intended to further anger Blue Flame against Shadow Shaman despite the fact that Blue Flame is so clearly a De-Froster in her video.
Could it be that I am right and the Frosted flakes do not want these people to join forces or perhaps they just want to turn De-Frosters on one another?
Let’s just face it, the Frosts are a part of our collective community and until we do something about that, well they are here to stay.
Note: This blog entry was originally two separate entries. I combined them when Aimee pointed out that the videos were referencing each other.
So mote it be,A.J. Drew
Topics: De-Frost - Child Molestion
…up their stupid child molesting asses
“Fuck Gavin and Yvonne Frost up their stupid child molesting asses”
Ok, I didn’t quote that perfectly. Blue Flame is so fast in saying it that I have trouble remembering the exact quote long enough to type it. But it is mighty close. So do I have your attention? I thought so. I gotta love this woman for her spirit and biker class. But I have to start the story with why she created this video. It is in response to a man named Shadow Shaman.
Hey, Shadow Shaman, love the hair you sexy beast. You are right, the Frosts wrote some very homophobic material. I think you quoted the mildest of their material.
Deceptions of Wicca
Now I know some people are going to jump me on this, but Shadow Shaman has some truly good points. The thing is, he should remove the word Wicca and insert “Corporate American Book Sellers promotion of Wicca”. This is where we find most of the lies the man refers to. Not in the religion itself, but in the marketing of the religion for profit.
Wicca is a postmodern religion, which is loosely based on some ancient principles. It is not, as many books demand, an ancient religion. I am reminded of a book published by Llewellyn Worldwide called The Truth about Neopaganism. According to the book, Neopagans have been persecuted for 6 thousand years. I think it was six, maybe five. Uh, neo? Even if they had said pagan instead of neopagan, I have to wonder who was persecuting pagans before the birth of Christianity or Islam. Other pagans?
There really is a lot of BS out there about Wicca and I can certainly see how Shadow Shaman could hold the opinion he has. After all, if you change the term as I mentioned, I kind of agree with a lot of what he has said. The thing is, there is another side to Wicca. One that doesn’t appear in print. There are good people who bought into Corporate America’s Teen Witch kits and other trappings. People who came to the religion due to its fad attraction and stayed, evolving the slim offerings of Corporate America into something truly beautiful.
He later released two videos on the subject of Gavin and Yvonne Frost’s Good Witches Bible.
Good Witch’s Bible Part I
Good Witch’s Bible Part II
Note that in the beginning of Part II, he says Wicca but then corrects himself and says the Frost’s version of Wicca. In part II, he reads about the Frosts changing their mind about Wicca not condoning homosexuality. I find the Frosts reasoning hilarious because they claim they said such because they did not understand how homosexuality could raise energy for magickal purposes. Uh, lets pretend only male female coitus could raise energy for just a moment, why would Wicca not “condone” an act of love?
It is also interesting to note that their back peddling on the issue of pedophilia was to stand behind what they said, but add that you shouldn’t do it formally because you might get sued. Wow. Shadow Shaman has a lot to be angry about.
The thing is, he takes his anger out on Wicca rather than on the Frosts. He is quick to point out that the Frosts are part of Wiccan history and there is nothing anyone can do about that. He is right. There is nothing we can do about the Frosts being part of our history. In fact, that is exactly where I would like them to be, in our history. More sweepingly, they are part of neopagan history and there is nothing we can do about that.
As I understand Shadow Shaman’s stance, he is not Wiccan or part of the neo-pagan community. He is a Witch from a tradition that predates the Wicca and neopagan fad. So his videos have been seen by many as attacking Wicca and the neopagan movement in general. Here is the thing, if you are pagan but not neopagan then you have a whole lot more to be ashamed of than the writings of the Frosts. Compared to today’s standards of social, moral, and ethical conduct; some of the actions of the ancient pagans were disguesting.
So why then are the Frosts such an issue? Well, because they are not part of our past. They are part of our here and now. They are defended and promoted by some of today’s leading authors. Did Raven Gramasi say a thing about what they did in his book The Encyclopedia of Wicca and Witchcraft? No. Did Llewellyn Worldwide say a thing in that book? No. Later, Raven Grimasi said that he didn’t write the section on the Frosts, the Frosts wrote it. These are our leaders folk. They claim it is not their fault, someone else must have been on guard that night.
We call them the Old Guard. Well, what the hell are they guarding? Certianly not our reputations. I shouldn’t pick on Raven Grimasi. You see the truth is his actions and conducts are loosely equivalent to just about all of the Old Guard. I shouldn’t pick on Llewellyn Worldwide. Their actions are loosely equivalent to just about all publishers. Business as usual. Don’t make waves. What is the result of that policy? Well, the above referenced videos are the result.
Yes, the Frosts wrote the content of Raven Grimassi’s book which describes the Frosts but does the average person realize that? No. The average person reads that the Frosts are the founders of Wicca and they believe it, after all there it is in a book published by Llewellyn Worldwide, the publisher of books by such folk as Raymond Buckland and Scott Cunningham. So is it really fair to think that folk like Shadow Shaman are the problem in this latest Witch War? They read the books that Neopagan authors and publishers put out and they believe what those books say.
Yes, I did say the latest Witch War. And now I am going to brag. Over at Youtube.com we have Shadow Shaman putting out videos that indicate all Wiccans feel a certain way. He quotes Gavin and Yvonne Frost and references other authors to provide evidence that his view of Wicca and Neopaganism is correct. A woman named Blue Flame Witch blasts back with her own videos.
Blue Flame Witch Part I
Her stance is that Shadow Shaman is judging all Wiccans by the actions of a few. I agree. Shadow Shaman should not conduct himself this way. There are certainly great folk in the Wiccan community and if you condemn us all, well you are missing out on the few who really do shine.
I want to bring to my readers attention Blue Flame’s video because at the end, she demands that not all Wiccans believe the lies being spread by Gavin and Yvonne Frost. She blurts out my name as an example. I am humbled. Seriously, that really blew my mind. To be quoted so firmly as someone who is standing up for another person’s beliefs is a very unusual experience for me. But I have to complain about something. Why am I the only author or other outspoken person who came to her mind? Considering what the Frosts wrote and what they continue to promote, why aren’t more Wiccan authors coming out and screaming from the top of their lungs that THIS IS NOT WICCA! Why is it business as usual?
Blue Flame Witch Part II
“Fuck Gavin and Yvonne Frost”
Again, I adore the spirit, spunk, and biker class of this young lady. But I have to ask a question that I would like both sides of the debate to answer. Not just Blue Flame and Shadow Shaman, but those who agree with Blue Flame or Shadow Shaman. One question.
Is what Gavin and Yvonne Frost wrote wrong?
If either side believes it is wrong, truly wrong, then why aren’t more people saying it is wrong? Seriously guys. I know where Shadow Shaman is coming from. I was raised on material by Herman Slater and Dr. Leo Martello. Authors I am willing to bet Shadow Shaman enjoys reading. I know that folk like Herman Slater and Dr. Leo Martello openly stood against the Frosts book. But what of today’s authors, not just Wiccan authors. Any pagan authors. Any neopagan authors.
Shadow Shaman, where are the books from your religion, from your leaders, telling folk that children are sacred and examples like the Frosts should not be tolerated?
Blue Flame, where are the books from your religion, from your leaders, telling folk that children are sacred and examples like the Frosts should not be tolerated?
We, as a community larger than just one tradition or religion, have somehow lost our fire. It has been washed away by tolerance. These two obviously agree that what the Frosts wrote was just plain wrong. If they could come together and make a cooperative video denouncing the Frosts, wow that would be something.
Ah, and you thought I would end there. Want to see an example of how the Frost supporters work? Well, those of you who have followed his threats here and his rantings on the Frost’s blog will recognize the name Shadowhawk. Well, over at Youtube.com he goes by the name Sylvanus93.
In response to the first video posted by Blue Flame, Shadowhawk (aka Sylvanus 93) replies to Blue Flame by saying:
“Just a quick comment Lord Archaeus has continuously attacked Wiccans yet at this Years Finger Lakes Pagan Pride Day in Rochester New York he was guest speaker on PAGAN UNITY.. now he attacks Gavin and Yvonne Frost.. He event left a comment on my Youtube saying that i smell of burning flesh.. This guy is Delusional “
So a tremendous defender of Gavin and Yvonne Frost posted to Blue Flame’s video, material intended to further anger Blue Flame against Shadow Shaman despite the fact that Blue Flame is so clearly a De-Froster in her video.
Could it be that I am right and the Frosted flakes do not want these people to join forces or perhaps they just want to turn De-Frosters on one another?
Let’s just face it, the Frosts are a part of our collective community and until we do something about that, well they are here to stay.
Note: This blog entry was originally two separate entries. I combined them when Aimee pointed out that the videos were referencing each other.
So mote it be,A.J. Drew
Topics: De-Frost - Child Molestion
3 comments:
I think he's turning on you now because his tactics aren't working anymore. My understanding is he's losing his ass on his gathering next week, and Gavin and Yvonne won't play his little game.
I don't understand why he doesn't take this to court. If he has proof of laws being broken, then he should get a lawyer and do the right thing. His constant harangue is only making him seem more and more desperate.
Drew never answered my question on the Frosts blog, about if he was the school bully when he was a kid. I bet'cha he was, and terrorized other kids.
Either that, or he was a victim of bullies, and now he's trying to overcompensate.
By the way, how is it that a guy who is too brain damaged to write books is able to do computer programs and codes, and all the other complicated shit that comes with running a web-site?
I have wondered that to
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